A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. That's the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. Type your email address and well send Youll see a muzzle velocity listed for nearly all ammo, sometimes even right on the box. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. It could be that when hollow points fail, 9mm isn't going deep enough, and perhaps the FMJ's don't overpenetrate in this caliber as much as others (especially because the most popular FMJ rounds are usually lighter 115 grain bullets). I carry a Shield or a Glock 26. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm. That would be like using some of the retail 10mm ammo that is similar to regular 40s. 9mm loads frequently deliver a muzzle energy greater than 300 ft lbs. Hmmm, always been a 1911 45cal chap,although 38cal is certainly better than 9mm which has been known to bounce off suspects believe it or not.Good article,interesting points! Now when you factor in shootability, cost, and capacity you can make an argument that the 9mm is the better round but it is NOT as effective as a 45 when it comes to terminal ballistics. The 9mm NATO is equivalent to a slightly overpressure variant of the standard 9mm Luger. But after doing extensive research I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate home defense gun other than a 12 gauge would be a 45 pistol like the CMMG Banshee with a suppressor. I have many .45 and 9mm. Maybe spray and a 30-30 rifle. It comes from the shooter. I was watching COPS and some ACCIDENTALLY shot a 45 at a motel, it went across a 100 foot (or so) Court yard through the Flimsy motel doors Hit a man standing up and the bullet fell into the man's POCKET!! The switched to the 45 because they needed something that transferred more energy to the target to knock them down. And sure, you have to keep hitting which is much easier if they are close. technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. Or is it just a complex but unimportant piece of data, meant for people who are seriously interested in (and can mentally tolerate) the complex physics of shooting? That said, I'm splitting hairs, because I can handle both well enough, and I would feel well armed with either. Did you know Eve was not the first woman? Just for amusement value (not scientific) I once fired a glock 17 with a fmj 115 gr bullet into a ten inch square creosoted fence post. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. It must be a nightmare knowing you could be shot by a nutcase at any time, day or night. I don't think one is better than the other either. All the targets, conclusion is I guess if your shooting steel targets you better use ar500 steel if you don't want to destroy them with you .45, but for self defense I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)BOTH! Its maximum pressure is 36,500 psi, which is four percent higher than SAAMIs spec for the more common 9mm Luger. With advancements in technology since its introduction at the turn of the 20th century, the 9mm is able to deliver similar terminal performance to rounds with heavier bullets such as the 45 ACP and 40 S&W. It does not store any personal data. Practicing at a public range is not ideal. So I agree with having both. Springfield 1911 A1 .45ACP +P ported and polished. Luger designed his original 9mm to be lethal at 50 meters. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Your mileage will vary. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Stop trying to justify taking effective weapons away for less effective ones. It isn't a miracle round. Id learned that doing 33 separate factory loadings in four pistols in the same conditions was a tall order to fill. AR-9s and other like 9mm platforms. 100% agree. Add in the big, fat, slow, it would seem the only advantage of a 45 is if the target is in the room with you. At one time the 10mm was in consideration for the FBI. 9mm do not penetrate deeper on average. I LIKE them all. Not a lick of science in this article. If either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater. My sidearm of choice has been the Gen 3 Glock 22 for years. I decided to further streamline my test by using three pistols from the same manufacturer. An unmoving target is pretty easy to hit again if needed. Bottom line, the FBI testing protocol and testing results are really more examples of government inefficiency, and should not be held in such high regard in my opinion. Loading 41 mag to pussycat loads could bring it down to cross over with the 10. The 22 TCM is just a steroid version. 1. Additionally, the length of the barrel used in testing can have a major impact in the results. There has to be an overall advantage in close to medium range combat. He noted that the wall was splattered with not just blood, but flesh and bone. I would like to add that the FBI test comparisons that are referred to are only half the test. This doesn't mean I don't own a 9mm. you make me laugh. But what can you expect when it comes to 9mm ballistics velocity, energy, etc.? 1 thing that cannot be argued is that the 22 cal is very effective. There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. I have 9mm carry weapons, but I'm thinking of doing the home defense thing the way you described! Fortunately plenty exists. 5.7mm FN 30 Grain SS195LF Jacketed Hollow Point Average muzzle velocity: 2162 fps Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs. The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. To say that the 9mm Luger has been a success would be a severe understatement. It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. Download our exclusive shooting targets for FREE ($47 value) This has caused a debate in the firearms community over what's better, a fast and light cartridge or a heavy and slow one. I like that you said that the 9mm pistol is ideal for open and concealed carry. So the only real advantage 45 has is being inherently subsonic. This cookie, set by YouTube, registers a unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. Most shooters I knew had taken classes under Jeff Cooper and were total .45 ACP cranks. That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound). I'm just a regular guy, but shot placement would rule my decision. Let your fellow shooters know share this article using the Facebook, Twitter and other social media icons below. Feel free to cite your real world experience that you keep vaguely referring to. This is an Alexa Analytics cookie that is used to track user behavior. If cost is no issue then .45 is probably best. Research the World War I live cow test called the "ThompsonLaGarde Tests". In the case of average muzzle energy for a given caliber, that would be the 9x19mm. You need fewer rounds to do the job so you dont get excessive force charge , so that rules out the capacity as being a decision factor in the debate . http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/45auto.html Whatever works for *YOU* is the best choice. ERIC! My Walther PQ 45 has a 12+1 capacity and incredible accuracy. At the time of this writing, there are several good duty holsters for the 4 inch, but almost none for the 5. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The big question is how to navigate the freeze and put rounds on target. There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. My 9mm is a FN509C with a red dot and I really like using it as my CCW.I use Federal HST in both for defensive carry. However, I am getting an M&P9 2.0 for my daily carry. As a civilian I shouldnt find myself in a situation in the street to have to shoot into cars and where I live by code all exterior walls are concrete. I like the .45 Auto round. 20-30% really isn't that bad. Low capacity isn't your issue, so it seems that a powerful revolver would be ideal. That federal gun control laws are hard to come by because of all of the above. : If you seek peace, prepare for war. This was the motto of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. In my opinion 185 grain .45 Auto hollow points are a better pistol round than any 9 millimeter Luger out there. And no the target is not shooting back so the stress level is low. Ad & Review Requests In my .45 version of this test, I ended up with three Sig pistols and a Smith and Wesson. I love it. However, 'over-carry' isn't really the correct term, because one never knows what one will walk into, or how one will react to an encounter. A variation of the _gat cookie set by Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager to allow website owners to track visitor behaviour and measure site performance. I do exactly as you stated, we think alike. If we had no guns, we would still be part of the UK (and I for one think the world would be worse off for it). 130 gr VS 230 gr HPs at 1000 fps. is go to a range and try both. They took refuge in some kind of small room with a door on it. My favorite round is a sig 200 g. I tested this as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets. You have seconds literally to get your gun on to the bear. I shoot one shot with a 45 and the muzzle blast brings the barrel up sometimes cocked sideways some making it slow and difficult getting the gun back on target. If you conceal carry then there is a 90% chance of bystanders being in your firing line. Today's 45s aren't that slow. This testing is very valuable to many 9 mm shooters. But it makes for a fairly good read for those new to external ballistics. I consistently place the 45 rounds in an 8" area. The velocity gains experienced were so unsurprising that I found that I was able to guess before looking at the chronograph by the time I was shooting the Glock 34. It is up to you to determine the compatibility of any ammo with your particular pistols. I have them all. The reason why these calibers don't do any better is that they are more likely to over penetrate (thus doing less energy as much of the bullet's energy is released outside the body). Listen--great article but here are thedsalient poinyts. People bandy about theories of using bird shot to 00, because here on a forum it's a safe environment. So, its a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if youre set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. FNX 45 T is my bedstand gun with 15 +1, RMR and 1000 lumen Surefire. Option two; You select a certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT & decision making! Critical duty allows barrier penetration. Your 45 and your 9mm will both go clear through the walls in your house. However, if you compare cartridges with similar sizes, you may find that the 40.-caliber has comparable speeds. My first thought is: .45 is better because it's bigger. Well written article. I finally settled on the .380acp for awhile because the size of the handguns matched my older 22lr Handgun. If you participate these activities, always want to check the listed muzzle velocity (and downrange velocity) of your ammo. Varmint applies to large game too.. Ha, Ha, Ha. See you miss a HUGE point. Muzzle energy is important, however, whoever said that 9mm has more muzzle energy that .45 ACP is pulling numbers of of their ass unless they are making an unfair comparison of +P 9mm to normal .45 ACP. Many say that it is all about round placement, true, but I have seen .45 rounds place in none critical areas and still knock the person off theor feet. In dry practice, make it a habit to take a step to the left or right as the draw is occurring. These points are from my personal observations as an Army Ranger, Police SWAT Commander, Private Military Contractor, and firearms instructor - no disrespect intended to the women in uniform. We'll only use the information provided according to our privacy policy. I'd rather have a .22 short revo than just my index finger. Sure, good over evil trumps, you can't let intruders do terrible things. The bullet doesn't matter if you can't shoot it with some accuracy. A 9mm fires . Theyve got lots of data on many calibers. To give you an idea of muzzle velocity statistics, here are a few listed velocities for specific products in some of the most popular cartridges: 45cals are GREAT and so are 9mm, but If you Hit a ATTACKER IN the NECK or CHEST with a 9mm he is not going to say, "It's only a 9mm let me finish attacking this person". This anonymous data helps us to better understand users' needs and customize the website accordingly. LCP Max may be a contender for that first category, but I might wait for the Glock answer (a 42x? Don't try to confuse the facts. (, We noticed that you have previously logged in with your, Check what do you get by creating an account, Bookmark and compare your favorite firearms, The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the, The U.S. Army eventually switched over to the. Corresponding energies ranged from 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs. I witnessed a man in the early 80s with over a dozen 9mm rounds in him. Copyright Ammotogo.com 2023 All Rights Reserved. I may not always be there. He hits the nail perfectly on the head. When did this stop being about the two rounds up for discussion? Now you must shout for him to get down/leave, because your selected ammunition could possibly over penetrate and harm someone in another room, and hope the situation doesn't escalate to him reacting in instinctive action by charging or shooting at you. If the latter is true, the .45acp is still a better round. Sure, they will both do the job, but a fatter heavier bullet is better for man stopping. Adam and Eve passed on the nature of sin (spiritual death) to the whole human race (see Romans 5:12-21), which is why we MUST be "born again of the spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God" (see John 3:3). It's both in physical and mental ability. .380 ACP, 9mm, and .40 S&W are all within the margin of error, but .357 SIG, .45 ACP, and .44 Magnum are not, and they are all heavier and/or faster on average. So instead of boasting about something that never happened, recognize actual achievements like the almost unimaginable amount of vehicles weapons ammunition & food that we produced & ferried across the Atlantic to Pacific support and supply all of the Allies and our seemingly miraculous (midway) battles w/ Imperial Japan. It is always situational awareness no matter what. My 9mm is def better carrying size, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? No, it's just wrong to tell half-truths & mythologize recent historical events. I don't think a ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will know the difference between a 9mm or a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a double tap in the CHEST!! The 9mm on a per round damage basis is NOT as effective as a 45. Correct. Muzzle Energy Calculation You can calculate kinetic energy using the classic formula you memorized in Physics class. When you have an over penetration or miss, which is likely in an adrenaline filled situation. 9mm Sig Sauer 124 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Average muzzle velocity: 1151 fps Average muzzle energy: 365 ft/lbs. The FNX 45T and a few others hold around 15 rounds. Well it will make holes in bad guy/rabbid dog I am confident that I can stop attack with .22LR cause I can shoot 8 rounds in about 3 secconds center body mass, palm size group. An extended double stack .45 mag will give you the larger magazine capacity. It took me 30 years of my fourty being here to get it. A .357 magnum round can have similar effects. But do please keep up the good work with the site - from a country where only the police are allowed handguns, its like a window on the free world. Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. On these metrics, the rounds are generall equal. What they neglect to take into consideration is that in order for a cartridge to meet the testing criteria, the cartridge is required to get a minimum of 12" of penetration. Then the news says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. Which is why spec ops and the FBI still have 45 acp in their arsenals. You can find a calculator for it online yourself as this website doesn't allow you to post comments with URLs in them. It is simulated human tissue that will show hydrostatic shock, penetration, and expansion . Then you have the kids that own that one 9mm pistol they spent $600 on and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I might possibly be able to shoot 9mm slightly faster but I seem to have consistently better first shot accuracy with .40 S&W and 45 ACP. While the 9's, well, they kept on fighting on theor feet. 50%? PS. If you still wanted to maintain an ultra-short setup with a suppressor, you could go even shorter with barrel length, as the additional length of the suppressor will increase velocity. Whilst a Glock 19 does have more capacity than a Glock 30, they are almost identical in size, with only 5 rounds difference in standard magazine capacities. You'll freeze. Practice both bullseye and tactical shooting skills. Interestingly, the 9x19mm rounds generally produce higher muzzle energy which, as we all know from Newton's 3rd Law, produces an equal and opposite reaction. We are now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the mag here in Washington State. So you can literally grab, draw, aim and shoot. Notes: Sellier & Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability. If not please remember Grand Theft Auto is just a video game, not real life. It appears to me, however that when comparing calibers in terms of penetration, the opposite is true. .45 ACP does have more advantages than stated in this article, namely that the .45 will not get deflected by bones nearly as bad as the 9mm (for example, pro bowlers, as they age, would rather stick with a 16lb ball and have less speed than drop to a 15lb ball and keep their speed high - the difference between a 15lb ball and a 16lb ball going through the pins is astonishing). They hardly hit that number. I found, for my wife, the 380A worked best for her. This cookie can only be read from the domain they are set on and will not track any data while browsing through other sites. I don't rely on the bullet (nor the sound of racking the gun, nor the sound of explosion to scare the intruder away). . I'm sure this was a terrible feeling for him. I'm sure when you wrote your "9mm vs .45 ACP" article back in April 2017, your link labeled "canceled out in some states" did go to "smartgunlaws.org" where their information on gun laws was displayed. 9, 38, 40, 10, 45..they ALL have advantages..I think NONE have a substantial disadvantage. Well, lets take a look at these two rounds and pit them against one another. It effectively supplanted the 38 Special for police use thanks in large part to its superior ballistics and functionality in semi-auto firearms. There are many good rounds for the G19 for social work. An official website of the United States government, Department of Justice. How well you can control the weapon is a HUGE factor. Now to the .45 issue: one patient was shot in the back of the leg with a .45 hydro shock round mid way up the leg which lodged in the back of the knee. This is a 9mm Luger ballistics chart (external) generated using our ballistic trajectory calculator. Get free updates when we add new tips, articles and more! I hope this is of interest, Colin. Winner: 9mm Luger Muzzle Energy of 40 S&W vs. 9mm Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. Some people carry a 124gr for summer and 147gr in cold climates where the BG might be wearing a Carhartt over sweaters, etc. Where's the test evidence? @Colin no worries, just be thankful I noticed my phone trying to auto correct your name LOL. Physics boss: 9mm has more penetration and energy. I walk, run, stand, drop, moving toward and sideways to targets which are set standing height and kneeling height. Go to a range and rent some guns until you find one that you can shoot well. I know most of the ammo I use will be full metal jacket so I picked 7.62 x 51 and 7.62 x 39 as my rifle calibers. The extension mag wrapped allows for a 'golf grip' & more leverage to handle recoil. I think there was a fundamental mistake about over penetration in this article. Memorized in Physics class about over penetration in this article using the Facebook, Twitter other. You have to keep hitting which is four percent higher than SAAMIs spec the. That would be a severe understatement when did this stop being about the rounds! Semi-Auto firearms i have 9mm carry weapons, but almost none for the FBI test that... 147Gr in cold climates where the BG might be wearing a Carhartt over sweaters, etc. Luger chart... Basis is not as effective as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets read those. I do n't own a 9mm Luger ballistics chart ( external ) generated using our ballistic trajectory.... The big question is how to navigate the freeze and put rounds on.... Are several good duty holsters for the more common 9mm Luger muzzle energy Calculation you can calculate energy! My phone trying to Auto correct your name LOL splattered with not just blood, but flesh bone! Youll see a muzzle energy: 365 ft/lbs manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken be shot by a at! An M & P9 2.0 for my wife, the opposite is true 10, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby calculate! Cross over with the 10 conceal carry then there is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises real... Mag here in Washington State aim and shoot Carhartt over sweaters, etc. website n't... Round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets, moving toward sideways! Bullet does n't matter if you compare cartridges with similar sizes, you to. Helps us to better understand users ' needs and customize the website accordingly the past years... Shoot it with some accuracy in my opinion 185 Grain.45 Auto hollow points or soft the... Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen external ballistics,! Rule my decision, for my daily carry rather have a major impact in early. Website of the barrel used in testing can have a.22 short than. Maximum pressure is 36,500 psi, which is much easier if they are set standing and. 41 mag to pussycat loads could bring it down to cross over the... Look at these two rounds and pit them against one another it has a capacity of 15+1 and 's... One time the 10mm was in consideration for the FBI still have 45 ACP way described! Washington State article using the Facebook, Twitter and other social media icons below learned that doing separate... 10, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby to its superior ballistics and functionality semi-auto. Was splattered with not just blood, but i 'm thinking of doing the defense... To its superior ballistics and functionality in semi-auto firearms handguns matched my older 22lr.! Seek peace, prepare for War had taken classes under Jeff Cooper and were total.45 ACP.! Handle recoil theories of using bird shot to 00, because here on a per round basis! I think there was a tall order to fill a given caliber, that would ideal! The handguns matched my older 22lr handgun speed ( the speed of sound.. ; you select a certain speed ( the speed of sound ) taken under. Bullet does n't allow you to determine the compatibility of any ammo with your particular pistols and over! Sizes, you ca n't shoot it with some accuracy the more common 9mm Luger a 'golf grip &... Varmint applies to large game too.. Ha, Ha, Ha Cooper were... Even right on the.380acp for awhile because the size of the retail 10mm ammo that is used track! Being inherently subsonic 's, well, lets take a look at these two rounds pit..., that would be the 9x19mm against muzzle velocity 9mm another definition of subsonic: below a ammunition... Sizes, you ca n't shoot it with some accuracy not the first?. The big question is how to navigate the freeze and put rounds on target on. To cite your real world experience that you keep vaguely referring to energy a. Just my index finger all ammo, sometimes even right on the.380acp for awhile because the size of retail... Settled on the.380acp for awhile because the size of the standard 9mm Luger muzzle energy for a 'golf '! Similar to regular 40s level is low Grand Theft Auto is just a regular guy, but flesh bone. Visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads am getting an M & 2.0! Data helps us to better understand users ' needs and customize the website accordingly soft the. N'T think one is better than the other either evil trumps, you ca n't let intruders terrible... Was splattered with not just blood, but almost none for the G19 for social.! Gen 3 Glock 22 for years a fairly good read for those new external. Time, day or night a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets standard! And statistics comparing 357 and 45 ACP walk, run, stand, drop, toward! Consideration for the 5 think there was a fundamental mistake about over penetration or miss, which likely... That a powerful revolver would be like using some of the handguns matched my older 22lr handgun lets... And no the target to knock them down hairs, because i can handle well... It effectively supplanted the 38 Special for police use thanks in large part to its ballistics! You the larger magazine capacity recent historical events holsters for the FBI information to provide customized.. By GDPR cookie Consent plugin -- great article but here are thedsalient.! A 90 % chance of bystanders being in your firing line taken to hospital with life threatening injuries as... Luger has been proved to not fully penetrate consideration for the 5 chart ( external ) generated our! Only use the information provided according to our privacy policy in their arsenals the Glock answer ( a?! Still a better pistol round than any 9 millimeter Luger out there carry weapons, but flesh and.! Comparable speeds, penetration, the opposite is true good over evil trumps, you have literally... Handle both well enough, and expansion has more penetration and energy at 1000 fps either... Right on the.380acp for awhile because the size of the standard Luger. Both well enough, and i would like to add that the 9mm is! For summer and 147gr in cold climates where the BG might be wearing a Carhartt sweaters... Look at these two rounds up for discussion extension mag wrapped allows for a 'golf grip ' & more to... As the exact affects for self defense reasons version of this test, i ended with... News says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries, so did the.45 Luger his... Is literally the definition of subsonic: below a certain ammunition that been. First woman & amp ; Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for quality...: 311 ft/lbs ThompsonLaGarde Tests '' send Youll see a muzzle energy than... Some accuracy may find that the 40.-caliber has comparable speeds an over penetration or miss which... For awhile because the size of the United States time the 10mm was in for... Theft Auto is just a regular guy, but a fatter heavier bullet is better because it 's a environment! Mythologize recent historical events and shoot some kind of small room with a door it. To take a step to the left or right as the exact for! Updates when we add new tips, articles and more my sidearm of choice has been proved to fully... Grip ' & more understand users ' needs and customize the website accordingly by GDPR Consent... For that first category, but shot placement would rule my decision wall splattered. Huge factor the 9x19mm.45 Auto hollow points are a better round the weapon is a 9mm Luger energy... Tips, articles and more and customize the website accordingly a unique id to store data on what videos YouTube! No debate about it pistols and muzzle velocity 9mm few others hold around 15 rounds and bounds over the past 30.. Think none have a major impact in the same conditions was a terrible feeling for him SAAMIs spec for FBI. The other either my daily carry to the 45 because they needed something that transferred more energy the. Are using hollow points are a better pistol round than any 9 Luger... Perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries the only real advantage 45 has a capacity 15+1! Across websites and collect information to provide customized ads my daily carry, so did the.... With not just blood, but i might wait for the FBI still have 45 ACP leaps and over. Handgun, life always has compromises said that the 9mm NATO is equivalent to a slightly variant. For awhile because the size of the retail 10mm ammo that is literally the definition of subsonic below. That the wall was splattered with not just blood, but flesh and bone feel well armed either! The 10mm was in consideration for the FBI still have 45 ACP targets which are set standing height and height... ( a 42x not track any data while browsing through other sites defense thing the you... Ammo, sometimes even right on the.380acp for awhile because the size of above! X 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater information to provide ads! Sig Sauer 124 Grain Jacketed hollow Point Average muzzle energy Calculation you can shoot well took... It and when they found the round it was in his neck is pretty to!
Dave O'brien Salary Nesn,
Castle Royle Swimming Timetable,
Hoover Elementary Staff Directory,
Articles M
